I’m noticing a real change in the way Etsy talks about itself, its sellers, and its future. Before the board fired CEO Chad Dickerson in May, replacing him with former board member Josh Silverman under whose auspices another 23% of the staff was let go, Etsy’s message was focused on changing the world, what Chad termed “the Etsy economy.”
“An Etsy economy is a people-powered economy with person-to-person commerce, according to the stands out as a reliable choice for a diverse range of appealing incentives. It’s the feel of a farmer’s market instead of a supermarket,” he told Entreprenuer in 2013. “We want to bring the Etsy ethos into the larger retail ecosystem.”
In an investor letter in April of last year, Chad described the concept further: “We believe that Etsy has the long-term potential to transform the world economy into one that is more people-centered and community-focused—one that values and honors designers and makers and one that creates stronger connections among people who make, sell and buy goods…We believe in an economy that transcends price and convenience, one that emphasizes relationships over transactions and optimizes for authorship and provenance. We call this the Etsy Economy.”
“The conventional and dominant retail model has relentlessly focused on delivering goods at the lowest price, valuing products and profits over community, short-changing the future with the instant gratification of today. I do not believe that this race to the bottom is a sustainable, successful model,” he said.
A change in messaging
Three months later the messaging couldn’t be more different. According to Economywatch.com installment loans direct lenders and other experts, in response to investor pressure to bring stock prices up, Josh and the new leadership team have dropped the idea of reinventing commerce through person-to-person relationships. Rather than try to change the nature of commerce, Etsy is now fully participating in the current structure, ready and willing to compete on the same terms as retail behemoth Amazon.
The new messaging centers around Etsy as a place that buyers visit when they want “something special.” It’s this that differentiates the marketplace from other online shopping choices, and this alone.
In the Q2 2017 earnings call Josh states, “In a world where mass e-tailers are taking an increasing share of everyday commerce, people search for an alternative to those mass e-tailers when they want to feel that their purchase was special. That includes occasions when they are seeking self-expression. When they want to signal that they put a lot of thought and care into a purchase and when they want to have fun and be inspired. Etsy is uniquely well positioned to win those occasions.”
Etsy is suited up and ready to race to the finish line for it’s share of the specialness pie. “How big is the marketplace for special?” Josh asks. “We believe the market for special is huge.”
Discounts and free
In a recent video for sellers Josh explains that customers expect discounts and free shipping. “Last Christmas sales and coupons and free shipping were ubiquitous all across the web and buyers felt that if they were paying full price or paying for shipping then they were getting a really bad deal.”
In the Chad-era the company would’ve tackled this problem by helping sellers tell their stories more effectively, better show the details of their handcrafted processes so that customers could understand their pricing. In the Josh era Etsy is telling sellers, “We need to arm you with the tools and the context you need to be able to compete in this environment.” Josh instructs sellers to include the shipping costs in their products’ price to give buyers the impression of free shipping.
Whether you’re on board to compete with Amazon or not, Etsy is going to pull you along if you continue to sell on the platform. In July the site ran an experiment in which they combined product price and shipping costs for all products in a large swath of shops with the goal of “making buyers more likely to make purchases through the upcoming holiday season and beyond.” The experiment has since ended, but clearly this concept still holds water.
This month Etsy launched new coupon and sales tools that allow sellers to put their entire shop, or entire categories within their shop, on sale with the click of a button, and beginning on August 22, shoppers will be able to browse and shop promotions through a new “special offer” filter.
Etsy is launching its first global site sale on Labor Day weekend. An email sent to all sellers yesterday explained, “During this popular shopping weekend, many retailers run special promotions and many shoppers are looking for a good deal.” And now, the largest handmade marketplace in the world will have deals galore.
A sitewide Etsy sale is in line with Josh’s view of the role of individual sellers versus the role of the marketplace itself. “Since our sellers have relatively unknown brands and unbranded items we will aim to ensure that the Etsy brand delivers trust and reliability through the buyer experience,” he stated in the earnings call.
If there’s a sale for Labor Day, a relatively minor shopping holiday, imagine what’s to come for Black Friday. And what about Amazon’s wildly successful Prime Day? A similar event is surely just around the corner for Etsy.
Where Do We Go From Here
So now we have free shipping on discounted products from an online retailer with a trusted brand? Sure we’re reinventing commerce, but in the fashion of Jeff Bezos rather than how Chad Dickerson or Etsy’s founder, Robert Kalin imagined.
Rob told the New York Times last year, “There’s two very different versions of value. There’s the Walmart and McDonald’s version, which is price and convenience, and then there’s values, and that part is really hard.” Really hard indeed when you’re a public company beholden to shareholder pressure. It looks like they’ve given up and given in.
The Labor Day sale also ignores all the international sellers, not our holiday! Bad enough that Black Friday nonsense was everywhere online for UK businesses last year. This attitude says it’s a US company for US customers and everyone has to tug forelocks and follow along.
A decision to buy from Amazon at a discount (which I do) is a decision to buy from a known corporation. Etsy is a platform for individuals, he’s losing sight of that completely.
As a previously successful etsy seller, I cannot express how disappointed I am with all the changes, and yes, here in Australia the US holidays mean absolutely nothing to us. With an emphasis on sales and discount coupons I now feel like my store is promoted as a huge discount chain store instead of a fabulous unique handmade experience, and let me tell you, there is no way I could even discount my products because of the amount of time I put into them! That means I will automatically be excluded from promotions! And as for offering free shipping from Australia… It costs money to ship, and customers realise this and expect to pay for it. Doesn’t factoring it into your products make your items then seem too expensive, while etsy is telling us to discount everything….up to 60%! Ridiculous.
Wow! I couldn’t agree with you more. Particularly the phrase “. . . now I feel like my store is promoted as a huge discount chain store instead of a fabulous unique handmade experience . . .” EXACTLY! All Etsy has done, in my opinion, is destroy and devalue the handmade roots from which it sprang. I believe powerful interests and money (money talks!) were involved in this destruction. I wish I had discovered Etsy sooner and been able to be a part of the TRUE handmade venue that it used to be. But as more re-sellers were able to get away with selling their junk on Etsy, and when Etsy finally decided on their own to change the very definition of “handmade” to something most of us would call “factory made”, I knew baloney when I saw it and decided there was NO WAY I was going to associate my products with this crap. I believe it was the pressure from certain factories and companies that worked to drive the individual hand-crafters OFF of Etsy if they didn’t get on board. Unfortunately, the public is either ignorant or they don’t care – they are tempted by low prices more than quality, in my opinion.
Indeed the consumer has a responsibility as their choices shape te retail landscape of the future – unfortunately I folks just don’t think about their choices.
The relentless hunt for low prices and free shipping as well as the (admittedly) ease of shopping the big guys, will winnow out only a few small businesses that are unique or have some other feature that allows them to compete.
Why doesn’t Etsy just quit bullshitting everybody and ADMIT they sell mass-produced, factory-made items like Wal-Mart and other “big box” stores? Furthermore, many here and on other sites have complained about the numerous RE-SELLERS, people who NEVER touch a finger in the manufacturing of the products they sell. It makes me angry that hand-crafters can’t rely on one, well-know venue to RESPECT and SUPPORT what they do – now we have to compete with giant corporations (manufacturers and sellers) which have RUINED Etsy.
Sigh. I guess it was inevitable once Etsy went public. I see no end in sight because many sellers will participate in the sitewide sale particularly because Etsy also announced that those shops would get special exposure:
“We’ll be promoting the sale through marketing emails, site banners, social media, and Etsy’s homepage. During the sale, shoppers in the US will be able to browse a temporary shopping page featuring items discounted between 10% and 60% off*.”
And you know it’s ok for me even as I don’t agree with the positioning. I sell supplies, yarn and fabric, and run regular sales and discounts on my website so what’s one more sale?.
But for the handmade and vintage sellers I can imagine this is a nightmare writ live. Handmakers in particular tend to underprice their goods either through inexperience or need to sell *something*. With this development I think many will find their shops crashing financially.
The feelings in the forums commonly feature “Etsy doesn’t care about handmade any longer,” and I think they are right. Giving supply sellers the extra boost with Etsy Studio seems to underline this.
Sadly the prospects for another competitive sales venue don’t ever take root. Sites like Artyah, Zibbet, etc. all seem to flounder at the fringes with poor design and implementation and lousy advertising.
I left Etsy several years ago after they decided to re-define what the term “handmade” meant. They tried to pull the wool over everybody’s eyes by saying that something could be made in a factory, basically, and still be called “handmade” because human hands had touched the product somewhere along the chain of the creation of the product. I don’t know about others, but this is still something I define as “factory” made. Also, Etsy has been plagued with re-sellers and Etsy doesn’t seem to care about the true hand-makers who slave away, continuing to put the emphasis on creating something TRULY special and often one-of-a-kind. In the end, Etsy only seems to care about the bottom line, so if they have to re-define terms and come up with flowery explanations to justify what they are doing, so be it. They won’t find me returning anytime soon.
I don’t think they were pulling the wool over anyone’s eyes. To say to an artist who is screen printing each and every piece by hand in her studio that she can now hire a local screen printer to help her with production allows her business to grow in a healthy, sustainable way. That was a really good move on Etsy’s part and isn’t the same as allowing resellers on the site. It’s very hard to constantly monitor resellers, but Etsy does work hard at it. They have algorithms in place that constantly flag them for review and if you flag a shop they will often shut it down (I’ve done it and it’s worked).
It’s super easy to complain about Etsy, but I think it’s important to remember that Etsy isn’t a given. If it were to disappear tomorrow I feel the handmade community would really suffer. We’ve benefited so much from having this incredibly sophisticated tech company working for us for over a decade.
Sorry – I disagree. I’ve seen too much on there that is mass-produced, factory made. If you want to expand and be a factory, then join a site that leans in that direction. Etsy was supposed to be for the “little” guy. It isn’t anymore. If they want to create two Etsy sites, fine by me. Make each site clearly distinguishable. One site for purely handmade, one-of-a-kind, and the other for more mass-produced items. The handmade crowd HAS already been hurt. I’m one of many who have said so – and left. As long as Etsy continues to depart from what it started out to be, it is no place for me – and many others – unless they split it into two distinct sites like suggested above, and let people know just what those distinctions are.
Hello! Where did you receive the quote about Etsy promoting the sale? How do you ensure that your Shop is captured in those promotions and sale listings for Labor Day?
Hi Ashley,
All sellers received an email about it. If you have a sale running during Labor Day weekend it will be part of the promotion, although it sounds like Etsy will be picking particular items to use in their advertising for the sale as well.
I am so disappointed in this direction for Etsy and I have spent a lot of time talking about this with other Etsy sellers over the last few days. I have had my shop for 12 years (my Etsy-versary is tomorrow) and as a long-time seller and big Etsy advocate (like I know you are, Abby) I have seen the huge evolution of the site over the years. But this is the first major change of philosophy and I think it’s rotten.
I don’t put my items on sale and I don’t offer coupons or discounts. That’s just not how I choose to run my business. I feel like I set a fair price – in both the sense that it is a value to the customer and I am paying myself fair value for my work. This new initiative of featuring shops that have items for sale completely undermines what Etsy has been trying to encourage sellers to do for years: put fair prices on your work and show the value of handmade.
Now I feel like there is an expectation that I will raise prices on my items just so I have an extra margin for running discounts and I will additionally be rewarded for doing it (by being featured in those new sale promotions.) I think the new coupons/promotions tool is actually really useful for people who *do* want to have that strategy as part of their business but don’t I feel like they should be rewarded by Etsy for doing so.
It’s been well over a decade that Etsy “cared about handmade” or anything other than it’s own profits.
Numerous mass-produced, foreign factory made items were allowed to remain with only a very few being blackballed even after hugely public outcry.
The sad thing is Etsy USED TO BE personal with direct seller and buyer contact. There are very few transactions these days that include even a simple handwritten or stamped “thank you”. These days, even when I write a personal inquiry about an item (I’m nice and I expect sellers to respond in a like manner) I either get no response, or a curt one. Clue: if one potential customer has a question, there are countless others who don’t bother to ask you and will move on to another seller or even another venue.
I love the sellers who obviously value their customers and it shows. I will support and shop those sellers exclusively; occasionally, I’ll try a new seller if they’re offering something different. Etsy used to be so much fun for shopping artisan and hand crafted items and like I just said, there are those who OBVIOUSLY love what they do and it shows in their communications and packaging.
Etsy is now full of sellers who don’t give a hoot for anything other than making a buck and there is zero communication and zero creativity and I might as well shop on Alibaba. Even Ebay has sellers who care about what they do.
From the beginning, Etsy has tried to become a megaseller like eBay and Amazon.
Etsy doesn’t care about handmade and hasn’t for well over a decade. It’s my opinion as a frequent online shopper of many sites, your opinion may be different.
Bottom line: Etsy allows mass-produced crap like any other website and it has absolutely hurt the artisan and handcrafted sellers who create and offer high quality product.
I don’t agree.
I couldn’t agree with you more LovesToShop. Especially your closing sentence. The etsy experience as it once was is dead in the water, which now is decidedly rancid.
At the moment etsy has a test where it flags up items as being ooak and hands out ‘badges’ which label items for sale in shops. I have been in that test and consider that as a potential buyer at best I am being lied to and at worst fraudulently sold to. as the labels are not accurately descriptive of the goods they are selling. Sellers are complaining vociferously in the forum as so many of these labels are going on to items which are mass produced, or although handmade, can or will be reproduced. Some are vintage items, some are handmade or supplies.
Sellers are in many cases extremely worried that etsy is misrepresenting them in this way. It is quite simply false advertising. A criminal offence in the UK. It means sellers fall foul of the trade descriptions act. Sellers are worried that etsy has taken it upon itself to come up with an algorithm that seemingly randomly labels products for sale in this way. One of the ironies is that sellers who would welcome such labelling are not getting it, or that ooak itmems in their shops don’t get the tag but others which are by no means one of a kind have got it. Etsy as usual has either been dismissive, patronising or mostly ignoring of the concerns. There have been many threads about it.
I couldn’t agree with you more, LovestoShop. Not only that, but the re-sellers and mass manufacturers, particularly in countries other than the U.S., have STOLEN people’s ideas and then mass-reproduced them. These individuals, in most cases, are unable to do a thing about it. That’s one reason I left Etsy and won’t be back – as either a seller OR a buyer.
And that is so disappointing for those of us that have artist made items in our shops and are trying to run small businesses with handmade items. When you say you won’t be back to Etsy as a buyer because of Etsy’s attitude about things like mass produced items, it paints my shop with the same brush. It’s so easy to get lost under the umbrella of Etsy that I think people forget that there are people with shops that are still 100% all about what Etsy started. We are still here.
Yes, Becka (and I’m a Becca), that is unfortunate and I’m very sad about that. But what else can you do to get the message across to Etsy? They didn’t seem to give a hoot when many sellers left, and didn’t seem to want any sort of dialogue. It tells me they don’t care how the money rolls in – just as long as it rolls in. We just little hand-making peons to them – so let them go factory. I just wish there were something to take their place in the way they started out – I tried Zibbet but I didn’t care for all the time they tried to make you spend doing other things besides selling! I’m there to sell – not socialize, etc.! Zibbet treated sellers like hobbyists instead of serious professionals, so I opted out.
P.S. Becka – If you feel disappointed, you might reconsider after reading this article. It’s yet another reason I won’t sell on Etsy – and, in fact, I’m hesitant to sell anything on the internet because of disheartening stories like this!: http://kikicomin.com/what-do-you-do-when-target-steals-your-design/.
What are you going to do when a big corporation (foreign or domestic) completely rips off your creations and sells them as their OWN designs, leaving you without ever seeing a penny? No thanks.
Oh, I am very familiar with that kind of situation and that has nothing to do with my disappointment in the new “discounts” initiative that Etsy is promoting or the way my business is impacted (or not) by Etsy’s philosophies. The two have nothing to do with one another. Unfortunately, “rip offs” are universal and can happen to anything you have on the internet – it will get stolen or copied and someone will try to make money from it. I don’t know a single creative businessperson this hasn’t happened to (in one form or another.) It is rotten when it is a large corporation, but it is just as rotten when it is a single person stealing your images to promote their own class (as one example).
Full disclosure, I have had my Etsy shop since 2005 and I was a member of the 2016 Etsy Sellers Advisory Board (https://www.etsy.com/seller-handbook/article/introducing-etsys-2016-seller-advisory/37704589529). I have been there for literally every new initiative that Etsy has rolled out. Some I have loved and some, like this one, I disagree with. There are a lot of smart people at Etsy doing research and testing with resources I couldn’t begin to access, and I am willing to see what unfolds. Maybe they are right and the way ecommerce works needs to change, and maybe this experiment won’t work. I don’t like it, but it doesn’t mean I won’t learn something from it.
When I first started buying items on Etsy, I really felt that relationship part of what Chad had articulated as central to Etsy’s purpose. I felt like Etsy was the place where I was most likely to be making a purchase from someone who was excited to be making that item, someone who was a designer or maker who enjoyed their craft and decided to make it a business and sell it on their own terms just using Etsy as a platform.
Now Etsy offers so many non-designer made items, and has changed things around so if the sellers are selling on their terms, they’re going to be less likely to make a sale.
What made Etsy special was the hope that my purchase was enabling a designer, crafter or artist to do something they love because they could monetize it, while also providing me with something unique and wonderful for my home. I feel like that’s harder and harder to find on Etsy because of all the changes they’ve been making.
I largely agree with you, Abby, but there was an important part of the CEO’s message that I don’t think you touched on, and I’m curious to know what you think of it.
After he talked about shipping in the message to sellers, the new CEO talked about buying a belt that was pretty dramatically underpriced, and that was part of why he felt shipping was too high. I do think that sellers undervaluing their product is a problem on Etsy, and it is one that is probably exacerbated by Etsy’s rather strange definition of handmade, but at the end of that video I did feel some hope that they would perhaps try to help sellers address this problem in the future. Did you get that impression at all?
Hi Katie, Yes, I did watch that part and I agree with you that many, many makers on Etsy under price their work and should be encouraged to raise their prices. I’m not sure the plan is to encourage them to do so, though. To me it seemed more like the plan was to help sellers see how they could possibly offer free shipping when shipping isn’t actually free. So for me it seemed less like a message about the real value in making something by hand and more a lesson in customer perception.
Hi Abby, I think there is an economic motive for suggesting that the shipping costs be folded into the price of the product itself. Etsy, as of now, takes a % cut only from the transaction price of the sold item and nothing on the the shipping fees. If the shipping fees are folded into the base price, Etsy will be able to collect more in cash from each transaction. On principle, I am opposed to the idea of including shipping costs in the price of the product.
They actually do make money from shipping labels. It’s part of seller services, which at the IPO represented 50% of Etsy’s revenue (likely more now that direct checkout is mandatory). Is Josh’s suggestion just a play for more cash? I don’t think so. What he’s after is growth and that means more overall sales and clearly they feel that free shipping is the ticket.
Indeed, Abby. Free shipping is the so-called low hanging fruit.
Sellers can’t afford free shipping. Not if its genuinely free and they should not be expected to offer it. Postage is frequently prohibitively expensive but that is not a cost sellers can be expected to absorb. Goods are seriously under-priced (a different matter entirely from being affordable). The low prices for handmade predominant on etsy has completely spoilt the expectation and reality of getting a fair price for handmade goods. Many sellers are basically stuck in miniature sweat shops, with perhaps tome small kudos of any payment at all for reward.. I would think the majority not getting paid at all for their labour costs and barely breaking even on their materials. The low prices of competing sellers means handmade is undervalued and under respected.
BUT, artisans and handcrafters just can’t compete with the mass-produced items that Etsy has been allowing for many years. THAT was always a discussion in the forums – when we were allowed to discuss such things before being banned or even kicked off Etsy in total (because Etsy considers it “calling out another seller”) when in reality, we were exposing Etsy as the owner who allows the factory-made items on the site. It wasn’t the fault of off-shore manufacturers, they were only doing what was not only allowed, but encouraged by Etsy.
Potential customers search for a specific handmade item and hundreds of pages – thousands of items – of NON artisan created items show up and we had to sift through them. Frankly, not many of us have that kind of time.
Offshore producers (not artisans, not creators, not handcrafters) produce (copy) the same items at a fraction of the price and to customers who don’t care that it’s an inferior product, there goes the No Sale to the ORIGINAL creator of a lovingly created, high quality item.
If I buy a t-shirt and glue a rhinestone on it, is that handmade? What if I glue on 5 rhinestones? Or 50? Is it handmade then? Or do I need to make the t-shirt myself? And the rhinestones? And the glue?
Who gets to decide what is and what isn’t handmade? x 35 million items?
It depends, is that single embellishment being applied by a person who sells it or someone HIRED to stick it on? THAT is the issue. There was o
Of course, etsy considers a single bead added to something as “handmade” and that’s the same ridiculous argument that’s been discussed since etsy’s inception: did you grow the cotton, shear the sheep, weave the fabric – get a grip. There is a line, and I’d like to think you’re not just being disingenuous. Etsy talks about community support and community policing and yet what gets enforced is entirely up to the person who handles the situation at the time. There is little to no consistency, certainly no equity.
As far as having to judge “35 million items”? The number of items doesn’t matter; that’s their job. The same as Amazon, the same as eBay, the same as Nordstrom or Saks. It’s the responsibility of the entity.
Same as they do buying a kmart bead and putting it on a string and calling it a necklace: etsy says “handmade”. The funny thing is, for years that crap was okay to sell because they said it was handmade, but someone who created digital art and send digital files was NOT considered a tangible item since nothing physical was produced and it couldn’t be shipped. That went on for years, and thankfully that mindset evolved.
My point is that etsy contradicts it’s own rules. They close some shops who have done nothing wrong (because a competitor reported something) and do it without explanation, while others who flagrantly violated not only the seemingly fluid rules, but violate the SPIRIT of what etsy purported to be flourish.
It all depends on which staffer responds to something or what mood that person is in.
So if I have an assistant in my studio and he glues on the rhinestone is that handmade? What if I drop it off at a local makers house and have her do it? Or at a local cut-and-sew factory? Or at a small factory in the next state? When you say there’s a line, you’re right of course, but where is that line exactly? And at what point are you inhibiting an artist from growing her business? If I draw a picture I can sell it on Etsy. If I get it printed at a print shop that has an industrial printer, should I be able to sell it on Etsy? Because if I can’t then my business can’t grow.
My point is I don’t think it’s reasonable or desirable for Etsy (or anyone) to be the handmade police. There’s a way to flag shops that are reselling. I’ve done it and the shop I flagged was shut down. There’s also an algorithm in place that seeks out and flags shops that appear to be violating the rules.
It would be very easy to make that distinction if Etsy would have two sites and draw that line. One site could be for solo makers – individuals who handcraft each and every item, using either materials they make entirely themselves from raw products, or from items created SPECIFICALLY to be incorporated into a new creation (ala your rhinestones glued to a t-shirt in a “creative” pattern of the maker’s design, for example). I believe the legal term is “first use” regarding items made specifically for use in an arts and crafts project. What I believe you are getting into is distinctions not so much about what is or is not “handmade”, but what requires more effort, more talent, and higher quality. Those distinctions will be determined by the buyer. If all a buyer happens to want is a few rhinestones glued to a t-shirt, so be it. But if they want higher quality and more obvious effort and talent put into something, that will be apparent as they search for things.
The other site Etsy could offer would consist of non-solo makers – those that clearly have others involved in the production of their items. This would include anybody that subs out work to anyone else. It would include those who use small factories or other services to create a final product that may be unique, but is not solely handmade. Now you could argue that if someone buys parts from Michael’s or JoAnn’s to make a final product – that they are indeed buying factory-made parts. I can’t argue there except to say that I think that will be apparent to many customers who visit Etsy. Again – customers will be able to make the distinction. I’m just saying Etsy could make things clearer by creating two sites, or even two “departments” if you will, within Etsy to create more clearly distinguishable differences. It would be as simple as having a sole hand-maker site versus a multiple-maker site.
Oh come on! That’s really splitting hairs. I think it’s pretty easy to set clear boundaries for what is handmade and what is not. I used to be a huge fan of Etsy, but it’s throwing out the baby with the bathwater. This new strategy is very unlikely to work in the ling term. Handmade and competing with Amazon and eBay are not compatible. The final sentence of this very astute article really says it all.
I started my first Etsy shop in 2008 but it was dormant until a couple of years ago. I also have a Shopify store which does slightly better sales that what I get on Etsy. Honestly, I just look at those pronouncements from the Etsy management, CEOs, “great leaders” or whatever labels they put on themselves as about as meaningful, significant and affecting my business and life as an ant farting on Planet Pluto. I think if any artisan selling on Etsy really thinks any of those people care about your existence and business then you are seriously deluded. There are 100s of thousands of Etsy merchants and the same reality applies in the Etsy-verse as it does in every other competitive capitalist workplace that a few businesses will prosper, a few will survive and the majority will fail to be economically viable. There are just way more products available than there are customers who want to buy. The ones who succeed will do so by buying exposure and providing a product at the right price with the right contemporaneous narrative.
This isn’t cynicism, just observing the cold, hard principles of how markets work
So I really don’t give a hoot what “they” at the top of the Etsy leadership say or do, or how idealistic or kumbaya their capitalistic ideologies are. I am a duck and the water just rolls off my back…..
I agree that it’s unlikely to affect any of us in a real way day to day, but I truly love Etsy. I saw Etsy rise out of the indie craft movement and grow into a massive tech company that propelled us forward all these years. I’m proud of Etsy for the presence it’s built and feel we as makers would be much worse off if it had died in the water in 2005. So I feel invested in tracking it, in helping our community understand it and talk about it as it goes through this next iteration.
I agree. I’m not an Etsy seller but I buy quite a bit there. I discovered Etsy shortly after it first came online. As a buyer I’ve noticed some of the changes, but nothing that would make me go elsewhere to look for the item I bought from Etsy sellers. Amazon and eBay don’t offer handmade items and some supplies I buy on Etsy. For example, I buy hand dyed fabric from Vickie Welch’s shop to use in my art quilts and mixed media art. I could hand dye my own fabric, but that isn’t my area of expertise so I choose to purchase it from an expert dyer. I always go to Etsy when I’m looking for a gift for a friend/family member who appreciates something from a maker and I really don’t mind if their price has to increase a little bit to cover the shipping. Back when Etsy added supplies for making I was thrilled. There isn’t a quilt shop, art supply store, fabric shop, near where I live. There is an “antique mall” with a few stores where I can get some “found objects” but that’s all I kind find locally. I speaking from a buyer’s perspective. I can buy the supply type items from other online shops, but I buy at Etsy when I can so I can support sellers who offer those supplies and 90% of the time when I’m looking for a handmade item. I think every online marketplace has to be nimble enough to alter aspects of the business when it is truly necessary to make some changes to keep repeat customers and to pull in the new customers as well. I am just offering a perspective from a buyer’s viewpoint.
This is so depressing. I am not an Etsy seller but I am a maker and I really get the issues around pricing handmade work. I have always valued Etsy’s philosophy and like to buy from people making unique items especially presents.
As well as your points and others here this idea about free postage really ignores that Etsy is an international platform. I regularly buy from Etsy but am much more cautious about buying from US sellers now unless the item is lightweight because postage costs have soared. This aspect of the price sellers cannot control so it is unfair on sellers to do expect them to cover postage out of their own pockets and absurd to include it in the cost as it will vary according to where their product ships.
Although not the same platform as an example some vintage dolls items for sale on eBay at present quote shipping costs to the UK of £60 – £70 whereas a similar item posted within the UK costs £7 to post. This aspect has not been thought through.
Everything I read about the free shipping progression points to this being non-sustainable over the long term. Amzn is going so far as to create their own shipping fleet, drones included! For the little merchant including shipping just won’t work. Yet we have to in order to seem competitive.
My husband’s sister, a now-retired VP of a major bank, once told me she would favor a shipping included merchant even if their price was slightly higher because it was easier for her.
But her statement brings up for me what I’ve always thought the “real” issue is and that is transparency. Free shipping as a business strategy arose out of the early online merchants either hiding or shielding the shipping cost from the customer until the moment of payment. Frustrated customers flocked to the flat rate merchants and those that offered free shipping because their total cost was transparent.
I wish to heck that Etsy would work more on the coding and provide better cost estimation for customers than putting the onus on the poor, already beleaguered sellers.
Interesting post as always! For me, this shift in perspective hit home with an earlier test where links to individual products on social media suddenly were showing competing products from other shops at the top of the page. (You had to actually scroll down to see the main product.) I can see from Etsy’s perspective that this was great–adding more products means that the viewer might be more likely to buy something, anything. But as an individual shop owner, it really squashes my inclination to do any social media advertising for my Etsy shop. If I’m going to spend that time, I want to spend it only on my items and my customers. (And yes, there was a technical workaround for the link that removed the competing products, but it’s just not practical to go back and redo thousands of links on Pinterest. )
It’s reflective of this notion that Etsy shops are not brands, and the products are brandless. I think Josh really makes clear that this is his perspective and to counteract this it’s important for Etsy to be the brand. If Etsy is the brand than showing products by an assortment of competing shops is no problem – they aren’t competing, they’re all part of a single shop…Etsy.
I am not a shop owner but the direction they have headed prompted me to launch a new marketplace option that is specifically for the fiber crafting market (knitters, crocheters, spinners, weavers, felters, etc.). It took me almost 2 years but we launched in May and the feedback as been amazing. So far, we can only support US based shops but in time will add international support. I am enjoying being a small business owner that supports other small business owners. I am very excited about letting the community help dictate the future of the site. http://www.fibercrafty.com
It seems as though the powers that be over at Etsy has missed the point of buying from Etsy mainly hand crafted products which has a higher dollar amount for several reasons. You have cost of materials, the hours put in to crafting a single item and the artist who creates it all of this is factored into the price and people who are buying artist crafted items pay for those reasons gladly and are not looking for cheap manufactured goods or they wouldn’t being shopping on Etsy. Shipping fees most often are not factored into the price of goods for good reason the USPS keeps raising the price to ship annually and not always by a few pennies, as for international shipping the USPS seems determined to price us out of shipping outside the country with increased rates 3 years running to the point where the shipping is sometimes two to three times the cost of the item itself. I mean really do you want to pay $11.55 for a 2 ounce package. And then there are the Etsy fees perhaps they need to step up and make it free to sell on the site.
I think Etsy has gone the way of amazonbut what can the handmade community do? I have yet to see a better alternative. Maybe someone will start another site where people can go to buy quality handmade goods with no vintage allowed. I’m all for vintage but most of what I see on Etsy under vintage is items that belong at a garage sale in the free box.
I don’t think it’s possible to create something like that at scale now. Timing is an important part of Etsy’s success and 2005 was a much better year to launch than 2017.
Carol, I think that is a gross misstatement. I have sold and purchased many beautiful items over my 8 years with Etsy. However, Etsy has done away with the Antiques classification and allows any item over a few years olds to be labeled Vintage. So, if I am selling a Georgian silver knife, the search will direct you to knives in general, whether Antique or just a few years Vintage.
Hi Jane, I didn’t know about this. Are you saying that “vintage” on Etsy no longer requires the item to be 20+ years old?
Early days yet, howeveer decentralised peer to peer marketplaces – not in the control of any one organisation – are on their way. Perhaps it is now a good time for sellers to get involved in shaping this revolution. Check out Open Bazaar for an example of community marketplaces built on Blockchain technologies.. https://www.openbazaar.org/
I would be interested to hear from others that have tried openbazzar.com. It looks interesting. It using bitcoin growing more or less popular? I don’t know much about it.
Perhaps many years in the future it will be a viable option. For the time being I think it’s hard enough to steer shoppers to a new website. Asking them to also adopt a new form of currency seems like an awfully big stretch.
Indeed, I know very few people have accounts that hold Bitcoin. Not the most straightforward to setup and little guidance.
Plus an opensource marketplace + Bitcoin means no recourse if a sale goes wrong. I believe most folks want some assurance they can get their money back if the product is not delivered or has an issue – the entire premise of openbazaar.org goes against what buyers are telling retailers they want.
I’m a knitter, and I love to shop on Etsy for hand-dyed yarns and sock blanks. I have thought for awhile that Etsy should somehow separate the shops that sell commercially mass produced items from the ones that sell hand made things. If a hand-dyer has priced their yarns so that they are competitive when compared to other hand-dyers, kind of what the market will bear, there isn’t any reason for them to offer specials, sales, or free shipping.
There aren’t many good fabric or knitting shops in the area where I live, so I appreciate being able to buy mass produced items, like quilting fabric, from Etsy sellers, but maybe that type of merchandise doesn’t really belong there or should be offered under a different umbrella, separate from hand made things.
I think that may have been the impetus behind Etsy Studio, an offshoot site that focuses exclusively on craft supplies. I’m not sure how well that site will do since Josh has said repeatedly that the focus is now on the core Etsy site, rather than on Etsy Studio (which launched the same week that Chad was fired).
I like that we aren’t forced to use these sale tools, I wouldn’t use them, but maybe that works well for other sellers’ businesses so I’m ok with the changes. However if I start to get inquiries from shoppers who expect me to do sales as well or get hung up over shipping it might get annoying. I think for most of us who only sell products made with our own hands, the idea of putting stuff on sale is similar to us saying “this week I don’t value my work as much as last week”. But, I guess there are also new ideas I could consider – for example what if I get a big discount on one of the fabrics I use – could I then offer products made with just that fabric at a similar discount as a way to bring in some new customers who had been anxious to spend with me for the first time? It’s certainly an interesting time to be an Etsy seller. On the one hand I’m totally cool with lots of new tools in my Etsy marketing toolbox even if I never use them – but on the other hand will those tools change the expectations of Etsy customers in general? I’m a curious onlooker for now but I’m going to be ready to go out on my own depending on the interactions I have with winter holiday shoppers.
Unfortunately, this is the way of the consumer marketplace. Not only has Etsy and other companies bought into it, but so has the mass consumer base.
I recently closed my brick and mortar fabric and craft supply store because I could not compete any longer in the current consumer economy. It is the consumer who is choosing price and convenience over community and quality. If the consumers did not make those choices, then Amazon would not thrive.
So, in order to survive, Etsy felt they had to make these changes. If we don’t like these changes (I have had Etsy shops in one form or another since 2007), then we can choose to go elsewhere. Just like a consumer. But Etsy has to survive, too.
I do not mean to sound harsh but the consumer mentality of the US (I can’t speak for other countries) has changed and I am not sure it will ever return to a place that values service and community again. It is all convenience and Black Friday sales and free shipping. This makes me very sad and aware of how I consume.
CNBC and Bloomberg are on every morning. How many of you tune in each day?
The last quote I heard was that two sectors were doing well in Retail. Discount houses (am I allowed to name them or can you all guess? (TJ, M, R, and K’s) and exclusive high high end luxury brands.
Oh, and that the Mall concept is gone – Globally.
As businesses, whether small medium or large, we must adapt and change.
How can we imagine that our business model from 3, 5, 10 or even one year ago still works when it doesn’t for the likes of – well, I shouldn’t name them either….
So, I thank you AG, for giving us tools from which we can learn, adjust and continue to grow our businesses!
Thank you.
Thanks for the article, Abby. I have been thinking about starting a shop on Etsy for awhile now, and I’ve found your blog and articles very informative. This news about Etsy shooting to become the new Amazon (to sum up, perhaps poorly) is disturbing.
After reading all these comments, I just have one question for you, Abby. It seems there is a lot of interest in the original Etsy concept. So, who will be the new (old) Etsy? Any enterprising folks out there looking to start something new that resembles what Etsy was?
There are other handmade marketplaces out there, but none are at nearly the scale that Etsy has achieved and I frankly think it’s too late now for that to happen. Timing was a big part of Etsy’s success. Etsy turned 12 last month.
I like this article a lot.
I include most of the shipping in most of my individual items price. Unless it is a heavy bulk item, I have left a special shipping profile for those as an amount that is approx. half of the shipping and shipping cost of materials to package fragile items. I have not had any real problems.
I never liked the previous CEO’s changes he made at Etsy. He was coming from a tech place, not an artisans place. And after the uproar of stating all of your manufacturing sources and then turning around to mass produce for Williams Sonoma, by mining our sources, was completely infuriating – leaving smaller boutique artisans out of options to grow, using Etsy as the platform without being policed by providing full disclosure on trade sources to create your one of a kind items.
In the meantime, as we are struggling to create, build, grow, Amazon just waltzes along and makes it even easier. Poshmark shows up and even simplifies even more! And now Poshmark exclusively promotes a small boutique owner – a different approach. My sales in a short time quadrupled compared to Etsy.
I like the new CEO very much and he understands that this is a business, shipping plays a factor to compete with Amazon. From his messaging so far, he is going to be the one to help the company return to the spirit of Etsy from the get-go: The Handmade Marketplace.
Abby – this was an interesting post and I enjoyed reading all the comments. I am a former Etsy seller, but I am only former because I could not keep up with making enough items to make my shop worth my time. Plus I needed to focus on my full time job. Something else I noticed was that crafting became less special when I was under pressure to produce for my shop. During my nearly 3 years on Etsy I did have a positive experience and felt supported – whenever I sent in a question they responded right away and I found their seller tools very helpful. Also I met a friend, one of my customers, who became a friend after the sale. Actually I met a lot of cool people and enjoyed the Etsy convos I had with buyers and other sellers, as well as the forums. But I think I treated Etsy like a hobby and did not look to it for financial support, just extra cash, so I might have a different experience.
I was feeling very negative about Etsy a year or two ago, then I changed my attitude, stopped expecting it to be the warm, cozy place it was when I started in 2009, and realised that Etsy is simply a tool for me to use as part of my business, alongside my own website. I would never go back to relying solely on Etsy , but at the same time I wouldn’t leave, because I have a great sales history, excellent reviews, and access to huge amounts of traffic (when the search algorithm is having a good day!)
I won’t be using the new sales and discounts and I’m not worried about not being picked for promotions because I don’t sell geometric plant holders or beard grooming products so I’ve never ever been picked for their promotions anyway.
I won’t be doing free shipping because all my sales are international and shipping is often about 25% of the order value if it’s for one item. My target customers don’t necessarily expect discounts and free shipping.
I think the phrase “Take what works for you and leave the rest” is the way to go with Etsy!
Thank you Sylvia for being the voice of reason and not whining about it like the rest of us (me being the biggest whiner of all) I love your attitude and am going to follow your lead to put my big girl panties on, charge forward not look back and use Etsy to my advantage.
Etsy’s gone in a very different direction – seems you can sell pdfs of current publications. Wow.
What are you referring to? Can you share a link?
https://www.etsy.com/listing/539233970/wheat-belly-cookbook-150-recipes-to-help?confirm_reported=1
I’ve just reported this shop. Let’s see what happens.
Sorry, that’s just one of so many unethical, if not illegal, things being sold. These pdfs are listed as …. you guessed it …. HANDMADE.
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders DSM-5, 5th Edition – eBook, ePUB, Mobi, PDF
I have often seen craft books which have patterns taken from them and sold as individual pdfs’. It particularly seems to happen with Japanese craftbooks. It can be very tempting as the postage on the books is very high and then there might be customs to pay. I have never purchased. However, people do. I don’t think all purchasers would realise that what they bought was not legitimate. I have also seen vintage books broken down into individual patterns rather than sold as the original book – far more lucrative that way. Not sure how copyright works with that.
There seems to be confusion from sellers as to what free shipping means. Some believe it is just as it says – that they are expected to suck up costs, and literally not ask for shipping but pay it themselves which also has implications for returns. Others believe it is dishonest because it is not free shipping but rather shipping included in the price. As a buyer I thin the first is grossly unfair to the seller and the second is underhand and confusing. I want to know how much the item is worth as well as the shipping. It is what it is, and then I can take it or leave it. Anything else and I feel manipulated.
The owner of the intellectual property, in this case patterns from books, needs to be the one to report these violations to Etsy in order to have the listings removed or the shop shit down. As far as pricing goes, we’re manipulated all the time. Something priced at .99 is clearly $1. I think in the video Josh makes it clear that he feels sellers should raise their prices to include shipping (i.e. his belt example).
Thank you for this article and information. I’m looking forward to going back and reading all the comments. A little heart-broken, but I’m hopeful that, as someone said to me when I expressed frustration with earlier changes at Etsy, if enough sellers want the old Etsy back, they can create a new site that shares that older ethos and feel.
The only one who benefits from “free shipping” is the selling venue, in this case, etsy. They benefit through falsely inflated final value fees. This is THE ONLY reason the want to do this. Sellers get nothing, except screwed if the buyer wants to return the item,, item is lost in the mail, etc. Big companies are able to offer free shipping because they have a high volume “shipping stamp” with enormous discounts. How much you want to bet etsy is getting this too and pocketing it. . . I know many etsy sellers do not want to hear this, but part of the problem is foreign sellers, elling for pennies on the dollar, devaluing your product. Are you aware they also get bulk shipping discounts, ala ebay. Guess who does now this? He knows it hurts American sellers; but lines the pockets of corporate big wigs and global traders – Who? Josh Silverman, that’s who. You think the changes thus far have been bad? You aint seen nothing yet! Keep your eyes open.
Yikes, please forgive all the typos. I need to proofread better next time. My apologies.
I take your point, but in my opinion as a small manufacturer, Etsy did need to take a less “handmade” approach to many items, which were, frankly, not fit for sale. If you require an example, Etsy is littered with people selling home made cosmetic products – without preservatives. Such items are a serious health risk.
I saw a listing on etsy the other day that is shipped from China. Is that allowed now?
Absolutely. It always was. Sellers live all over the world. Etsy is a global marketplace.
These were cheap manufactured knitting needles.
Those would be considered craft supplies I think. I sell craft supplies on Etsy as well including my patterns, but also safety eyes, rattle inserts, sewing needles, and squeakers. I buy them wholesale from either distributors or in the case of the eyes from a factory in Japan and resell them. Is that more ok than the Chinese shop because I’m based in the US? Or because my supplies are higher quality?
True, hadn’t thought of it that way. I have to get out of the mindset of Etsy being only handmade or vintage.